GRTiQ Podcast: 119 Liam Doyle

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Liam Doyle (00:18):

I can honestly say within The Graph ecosystem, I’ve worked closely with so many great Advocates and community members, and I’ve made friends for life from all over the globe.

Nick (00:27):

Welcome to the GRTiQ Podcast. Today, I’m speaking with Liam Doyle, founder of GRTDataHub, a well-known community resource for easy to interpret on-chain GRT data, with multilingual educational chatbots for web3 and The Graph ecosystem. If you’re on Twitter, and you’ve seen any posts about the data in The Graph ecosystem, then you’ve likely already seen the work of GRTDataHub. What’s incredible about Liam’s story is how a vibrant ecosystem has sprung up around his work, and how you’ll regularly see GRTDataHub translated into many languages, with localized communities gathering around and supporting the content. During this interview, Liam talks about his full-time work outside of crypto, how he found and got involved with The Graph, via The Graphtronauts community, the origin story behind GRTDataHub and its community, and some exciting new features Liam is planning to release. As always, we started the discussion talking about Liam’s educational background.

Liam Doyle (02:00):

For as long as I can remember, in terms of my early education, I wanted to leave school as early as possible, and only since leaving school have I come to realize why this is. Looking back, it wasn’t that I didn’t enjoy learning new things. I mean, I pushed myself on a daily basis sort of within work and within web3 coding especially, I pushed myself to learn something new daily, but I came to realize that the way that I learn best is when I’m doing something that I enjoy. And that sounds obvious, right?

(02:29):

I mean, if it wasn’t until I left school after my GCSCs to study mechanical engineering, which led me down the path of aeronautical engineering, which all of a sudden I knew that it wasn’t the education that I disliked, but it was the fact in the way that I was sort of forced to learn. I, along with many others, do not learn by sitting in the classroom or under artificial light with someone stood at the front, sort of talking at you for an hour or so, on a subject in which you may or may not be interested in, often through the form of death by PowerPoint, or solely written exams in silence.

(03:07):

Some people can read a book, and they’re able to regurgitate like 90% of the content weeks later, without any sort of revision. I mean, that’s not how I learn. I’m not one of those people. I learn by seeing how something’s done, and then myself doing it, and then standing sort of back from the situation analyzing it, and then writing it now myself. I found over the years, that’s sort of the best way that I learn. It’s sort of a three-step process for me. So classrooms, lecture halls, and probably like 80% of corporate courses are taught in the way of how you were taught at school, and it’s probably due to the fact that it’s the cheapest way. It sort of ticks all the boxes on the delivering the training.

(03:49):

However, a quarter of those people probably won’t take 80% of the information in that’s being put across. I mean, that’s a very long answer for the opening question, but in the way which most people learn, in the forefront of my mind in sort of supervising at work or teaching others, especially during the burden of the educational content within the app, some people need sort of a visual aid rather than text, and others need to be able to test their self and sort of learn the answer in the subject, as opposed to just having somebody speak at them. So, I guess one of the sort of favorite quotes for me having left school at quite an early age, I don’t have a degree, or I don’t even have A-levels.

(04:28):

However, one of the funny quotes that people have said to me in the past is, “How do you judge somebody’s sort of education or their way in life?” And one of these quotes is, “Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll live its whole life believing that it’s stupid.” I mean, now question’s got quite a good point. Well, how do you define a genius, or how do you define someone on their educational background? For me, I believe that if somebody finds a subject that they love or they’re enthusiastic about, they’ll be able to pursue that hobby or that interest, and do the best they possibly can at what they love.

Nick (05:09):

Well, Liam, you and I are speaking today because you’re the founder behind GRTDataHub, and just about everybody that listens to this podcast will be familiar with your contributions, and this incredible community that’s kind of risen up around that work. Before we talk about that, though, I do want to click on the fact that you, like other guests of the podcast aren’t presently full-time in web3. So, contributions you’re making are a lot like other contributors in web3. You’re doing it as a side hustle, and just contributing and helping support the growth of web3. If you don’t mind, what can you tell us about what you do for your day work?

Liam Doyle (05:48):

So, I’m an aeronautical engineer. I’ve worked on a few aircraft over the past 10 years within my job, from depth maintenance, carrying out repairs to aircraft, skin panels, intakes, flying controls, etc. I have carried out repairs to intricate carbon fiber and fiberglass composite structures, to working on live aircraft, carrying out fault diagnosis from hydraulics to fuel systems, to air conditioning systems. Sort of finding the cause of an issue, coming up with the tests to prove a certain valve or component within the complex system is a root of the cause, carrying out the work to change it, to make sure that system’s safe and serviceable ready for flight, or whilst ensuring that it’s carried out safely, professionally, and most importantly, to ensure the aircraft performs the exact way the pilot wants it to, and when they want it to.

(06:37):

I mean, ensuring the pilots and passengers that they carry will land safely and home to their families. I mean at the end of the day, that’s the main goal. So in a nutshell, I work on all the mechanical parts of an aircraft.

Nick (06:50):

So Liam, I’ve had engineers on the podcast before, but never an aeronautical engineer. I’m very intrigued by your career and the things you do for a living. It seems to me that you could think of an aircraft as a system, a closed system with all these different components and elements to it, and in that case, like an engineer does what, working on the system for optimization and ensuring that it works appropriately?

Liam Doyle (07:18):

Yeah, so each system has its own functions, its own fail-safes, its own signals that it gives to the pilot if it’s not working the way it is intended. So yeah, each engineer knows exactly how the system should work, how it shouldn’t work, the fail-safes, what sort of alerts should come up. So when you’re doing the function tests of each of those systems, you know what’s set in place as to how it should be working, and if it’s not working that way, you need to investigate as to why it’s not working that way.

Nick (07:47):

It sounds very scientific in the approach that you’re taking, and that doesn’t surprise me, and I’m sure it won’t surprise listeners of the podcast that an engineer is doing science-based work. What do you enjoy about doing that type of work?

Liam Doyle (07:59):

I would say I get the most job satisfaction from my work when you take an unserviceable aircraft that’s maybe been stripped down for an overhaul or a depth maintenance, or even if a pilot’s reported a fault and make it serviceable for flight. I mean naturally, that’s the end goal. So that’s probably where you would suspect to get a satisfaction from. I mean, when the pilot reports the fault, the next step is fault diagnosis. Unfortunately just the complex systems, sometimes you can move yourself down a rabbit hole and get tunnel vision, which is quite a big thing within engineering, on certain components that are maybe not the issue, but after you come up with it, in the end, you sort of get out of that rabbit hole and you’ve fixed the faults, you’ve carried out the functional tests and the aircraft and the systems are all serviceable. There is an element of job satisfaction that I can’t really explain to someone who may sort of work at a desk all day and doesn’t carry out this line of work.

(08:56):

However, I could sort of link it to coding, maybe creating a component within an app, testing it, finding bugs, writing a new bit of code which may break the app. I mean, there’s a sense of frustration and satisfaction when the app works, but maybe not as you intended, and then when you push it out to the user, and it does work as intended, and then you’ve got full confidence that the end user will be able to use that, and use what you’ve built with no issues. That’s sort of a similar feeling, but I can’t say it’s the same.

Nick (09:27):

Well, to be fully honest with you and listeners of the podcast, I’m a bit of a nervous flyer myself. I don’t particularly enjoy flying, and I’ve never spoken to someone like yourself before that actually works on airplanes. I’m curious what you say to people like me who are nervous about flying. You’ve got a real inside view about how planes work and the safety behind it all. What do you say?

Liam Doyle (09:50):

Yeah, it actually makes me laugh when people say that they’re nervous to fly or they talk of planes crashing, so they must be dangerous. Not because I find it funny or ridiculous, or having these worries, or because I find it funny that they’re scared to fly. That’s not the case. It’s the fact that it’s wrong. I mean, air travel is the safest form of travel. People may not realize this as, most people when they’re sat on the end of the runway and they can just think about planes crashing or not taking off correctly. I mean, people don’t get nervous to drive their car to work, or to go for a walk or a leisurely bike ride at the weekend. I mean, why is that? Because people don’t know how over serviced and over maintained aircraft actually are. If I was to break this down, firstly, you have somebody who has carried out an intensive course, can be between three to six months, learn about the aircraft systems, inside and out and learn every single component within those systems.

(10:44):

If the component was to fail in each phase of flight, what the fallback is for that system, the fail-safes, any of the alerts that the pilot would see. I mean even taxiing on the ground, to landing, to cruising, they’re all different phases of flight, so the systems may produce different faults, or they might act differently in different phases of flight. And then for each of the systems, you’ve got those fail-safe. So where will the fuel or hydraulics be prioritized to in the event of a failure? For example, certain systems will be shut off. If there’s a hydraulic leak, the undercarriage will be able to be extended on the emergency system only. If it’s already been retracted, the pilot might not be able to steer the aircraft when he lands, but if it’s a matter of life or death at 6,000 feet and he is on his landing approach, his priority is getting his wheels on the tarmac, not being able to turn the aircraft once he lands. By that point, his brakes may or may not work for certain aircraft.

(11:43):

And then again, other aircraft have different systems in place, or airports have systems in place better to slow those aircraft down. I mean that’s a bit of a tangent I went on there, but let’s move on to the step from the competent engineer who has passed his course. He knows the systems, inside and out. He knows what the pilot will see, and when he gets the issues, the causes, and he knows how to fix them. And then, we have an engineer who will be fixing the aircraft, and then we have their supervisor. So this is a second competent person. They’ll be doing the tasks together, and then when they finish the job, then they believe the system is working as it should and it is not broken. It’s now serviceable and ready for flight. That’s when they’ll carry out functional tests, and if the work has been carried out on any system that affects the handling of the aircraft, the flying controls, the engine, the undercarriage, or even if the supervisor just wants a confidence check in their work, then there can be inspections carried out.

(12:39):

Not only do these get carried out to ensure the system is being correctly put back together, they’re also present for the functional tests where they see the system working before the pilot gets anywhere near the aircraft, bearing in mind there is a second supervisor who will do an independent check. So they’re not even allowed to have carried out any work on the system at any point during the maintenance, they carry out a check of the whole system, not just where a part or valve has been changed, but they’ll do the check of the whole system, which alleviates that tunnel vision that I spoke about earlier that some engineers can get. And then once all three of those engineers are happy with the system, once they believe it’s serviceable, they they’ll deem the aircraft acceptable for fly. I mean, if we were to put that in terms of if a bike is in your shed for six months and you’ve not rode it for six months, you dig out the shed and it’s your first time riding on it, you’ll just get it out and you’ll probably look at the tires.

(13:31):

Is there air in them? Yep, there is. Great. Let’s take it for a bike ride. If it was an aircraft, you’d replace the chain, you’d top the tires up, you’d check there’s no cracks in the tires, you’d make sure the seat’s okay, it’s not being chewed by a mouse, you’re not going to get soaked as you’re riding it down into the town center with busy traffic, people late for work, with just an obstacle of a cyclist in their way in the race against time. I mean, let’s say for a week the bike would have seven servicings done. Every time you’ve rode the bike, every time before you’re going to ride the bike, you’d have all these different point checks. Even if you haven’t rode the bike and the bike’s been sat there for six months, you would’ve probably changed the tires four times, because it’s done on calendar days as well as how many hours the bike’s been rode.

(14:17):

There’s so many checks in place. I can guarantee that when you get into your car in the morning on your commute to work, you don’t go around and do a 20 to 40 point check every time you get in your car, and I can put some figures on it because I’m a bit of a date geek. But in 2022, 174 passengers and crew sadly lost their lives, along with four ground crew from six fatal air accidents. This means that the current rate of one fatal accident every 4.25 million flights. How is that relevant to driving in your car, listening to this podcast? Well, the aviation death toll of 164 corresponds to the average number of fatalities on the road in one hour and a quarter worldwide, which means on average 1.3 million people die the road worldwide each year compared, to 174 from 2022.

(15:10):

And people say to me that they’re scared of flying. I mean, in 2021 there was one major aviation crash for every 7.7 million flights. The overall fatality risk is 0.23, meaning on average you need to take a flight every day for 10,078 years to be involved in an accident with at least one fatality, whereas the odds of dying in a car crash show approximately one in 107. So my question that I ask to people is, are you scared of driving your car? Are you scared of walking down the road to the shops because you’re a lot more likely to be in a fatality than you are from crashing? So, somebody listening to this podcast probably think of one or two things now. Either I put them at ease that flying is in fact one of the safest form of transport probably in the world, and you can relax the next time you go on your family holiday, or you just set your alarm for 30 minutes earlier to go and check your car before you commute to work.

Nick (17:09):

So, you’re obviously on a career track here, and you’re doing some very cool engineering work in aviation, but you at some point become aware of crypto, and you decide to get involved a little bit. Do you remember when you first became aware of crypto, and what you were thinking at the time?

Liam Doyle (17:26):

I dabbled in crypto in 2017, I believe it was. I didn’t invest any money, or didn’t even have any interest into what it actually was, and I believe it was Iota that first got me interested. I remember seeing this video of a world where you can drive your car into a fuel station, pay at the pump, and just drive off, and somehow the car spoke to the pump and the pump knew exactly how much you’d put in your car, and it just seemed like that’s where the future was progressing to, and that got me initially intrigued within crypto.

(17:59):

However, since then I’ve sort of done my own research into many projects along the way, but I never really invested until I stumbled across The Graph in 2020, and that was initially through Look, but once again, go down a rabbit hole of learning how to code through a 15.99 pound self-taught Udemy course, which then led me onto GraphQL, I believe it was, and then from there stumbled across The Graph. Since that point, I don’t really remember taking my head out of the rabbit hole. I mean, to be honest, I wouldn’t even know where the light’s coming from anymore. I’m very fortunate to, a keen interest in crypto and web3, and I definitely fell in love with The Graph through my eagerness to learn how to code, which later led me down to explore web3 as a whole.

Nick (18:41):

I want to unpack what you just said there, and focus a little bit on that journey. So the first part of that that’s interesting to me is that as you became interested in crypto and web3, the first thing you did was sort of learn how to code, and start getting involved in that way. Does this go back to your educational background and your approach to education, that you felt like to better understand crypto and web3, you had to take a hands-on approach and start learning how to code?

Liam Doyle (19:12):

I’ve always assumed you have to go to university to learn how to code. I’ve always wanted to, since I remember being maybe 12 or 13, downloading apps on an iPod, how to create an app, or create an app within this app. I know I’ve always wanted to learn how to make an app, but yeah, having thought of it as you just said, maybe that’s what sort of sparked me as to the things that I’ve got keen interest in, things that I love to do pushes me to learn more and become more invested into that.

Nick (19:42):

And the second part of that would be this aha moment when it comes to The Graph. So, I often ask guests what it is about The Graph that grabs their attention because there’s a lot of projects to get involved with in crypto, and so the fact that this one in particular caught your attention and drew your interest, it’s something I’m curious about. So how would you answer that as it applies to your interest in The Graph?

Liam Doyle (20:06):

I believe it was through when I was learning on the course, they were going through databases and JSON files, it sort of led me down the rabbit hole of learning. Surely, there’s a more efficient way of being able to grab data, how to make it quicker. I mean so many apps, even your phone gets so slow with the amount of data that’s on it and I just told myself, “Surely there’s a way that either I or someone out there can get this data out there for everyone to use, and then just sort of grab the bits that they want, as and when to make it more efficient.” And then having looked into it, yeah, people are already doing that. I mean, it’s great. And as I looked into it further, I realized that this, as it was echoed, the Google of web3 really does look like it could be the backbone of web3.

Nick (20:50):

A fairly common question I ask on the podcast, especially to people like yourself who have a full-time job, and I’m sure you already have other commitments, that you’re a busy person, and yet you become interested in web3 and The Graph and you start spending, I presume some nights and weekends studying how to code, and learning more about The Graph. What are you explaining to family and friends, or how are you sharing with them what’s going on, and why you’re doing it?

Liam Doyle (21:16):

Well, when I tell people about web3, most people just talk about Bitcoin. Some minor holdings that they may have from a quiz they once stuck on Coinbase, which they’ve now deleted off the phone, or they check in on often. But I’ve met a handful of people at work who know probably just enough about crypto to have a conversation for about 10 minutes or so. This is a shame, but people forget that we’re still early. My family and most of my work colleagues know that I code in the evenings for three to five hours most nights. They see it as a great thing, but most of them say, “I wish I could do that.” Or, “Oh, how do you find the time?” And I just tell them, “Look, it’s taken me two years.” If you make the time, then you’ll do it. You progress every day. Little by little, get better.

(22:01):

I mean, if you don’t have the ambition, then I can help people to a certain extent if they don’t want to take that step theirself, it’s quite hard just to sort of twist someone’s arm. So I like to show them the path I’ve taken, courses I’ve taken, and sort of lead them down the same path that I’ve done, and I managed to get about five or 10 people starting start coding within my workplace. Some people don’t really understand why I want to finish an 11-hour shift and then work on an app in the evening, but I can’t really explain how it’s my sense of escape something that I love doing. It’s a hobby. I mean, it’s a passion of mine. Maybe, I don’t know how a jockey would feel riding at full speed on a horse towards a final hurdle of the Grand National. It isn’t for me.

(22:44):

I’d rather stand in the stalls and cheer them on and give them a pat on their back and say, “Well done for your hard work and determination.” But I think that’s how maybe some people around me feel like, “Yeah, he was doing a great thing, but I don’t really want to put in time or the effort to be able to get where they are.” I mean, I’m going to be 28 in September with sort of 10 years of aeronautical experience behind me and now two years of coding. I mean, who knows? Maybe those careers might cross in the future.

(23:11):

I assume some sort of AI unmanned aircraft, we’ll see. Maybe I can utilize my skillset in those sorts of areas, and there’s people that have been watching from the touch line, may have wished they’d given it a bit more of a go than what they initially thought they couldn’t do. I mean, don’t let somebody tell you, you can’t do something because if I can do it, if I can put in the hours and find the time, most people find time to go out drinking at the weekend, or go out socialize. Just cut back on that maybe an hour, half an hour each week and start putting it into something that could maybe build you as a person for the future.

Nick (23:46):

So Liam, after you get interested again, following your initial exposure in 2017 and then finding The Graph in 2020, starting to get involved in coding on nights and weekends, you enter The Graph ecosystem, and you eventually join The Graphtronauts community. Talk to us about that. What was that journey and experience like?

Liam Doyle (24:10):

Yeah, so as I said previously, whilst doing this web development bootcamp, I stumbled across The Graph by accident when learning from there, I sort of found myself on Coinbase, doing the quiz at the time. So what it does, it’s impacted in web3. I can’t really tell you how I found The Graphtronauts group chat. I’m sure it’s named something differently back then, but when The Graphtronauts were formed, I remember seeing members in the group growing and growing on a weekly basis. I asked a lot of questions at the start. I found The Graph documents, and then told others about the documents and helped others to answer the questions that I once asked. So in a way, I sort of came full circle in the fact that I was now helping others to realize that sort of light bulb moment that I had in my head, and I could see other people having the same sort of responses and how friendly the community is. Is this the really like the next Google of web3?

(25:02):

GRT, I believe is the backbone of web3. It’s often echoed, obviously it’s the Google of web3, and since then I got to know all The Graphtronauts admins really well. Not many people know this, but my brother actually joined the community at the same time as me. So as I was focusing on learning how to code, and as I wanted to make new tools, etc., in the future, you turn to the community support side of web3 and The Graph so that I’m moderating, helping, educating most important, be welcoming newbies along like we were at one time. Some of you may know him and some of you may not, but it’s actually CM from The Graphtronauts. So if you spent a day probably messaging in that chat, I can guarantee you come across him at some point. He’s very helpful, very knowledgeable.

(25:48):

Not only did he start The Graph News, which was later produced and then showed weekly on The Graphtronauts YouTube channel, but he also gave me sort of the platform to make these graphs for the weekly stats updates. So from there, GRTDataHub was born, or what it was once called and it was rebranded to, which is actually it was called Graphtronauts Data Hub, and then later changed to negate any conflict of interest or confusion within the community. Since then, I’ve gotten to know the admins very well, some of the best people within web3, and definitely Graph ecosystem.

(26:21):

I mean, there are certain members I cannot thank enough for the help along the way from, I’m going to butcher these names, but I’m going to go for it from [inaudible 00:26:28], who taught me how to create my first ever subgraph to get the data for the charts. He’s helped me code from the very beginning of my web3 journey from where it all started to Paolo who, I mean from day one, has been one of the most supportive people that I’ve met within The Graph community, and even to this day we talk on, if not be weekly, then a daily basis, and he still pushed me to improve the app. He’s still pushed me to become better at coding. I mean without the admins within The Graphtronauts, I truly do believe that myself and GRTDataHub would not be here today. So yeah, they’ve helped me a lot.

Nick (27:03):

Well, I for one, know who your brother is. I’ve seen CM active in Graphtronauts, and I remember in the very early days, several members of The Graphtronauts team reaching out and supporting this podcast, and CM was certainly one of them. For listeners that don’t know, Liam, what GRTDataHub is and how it works, can you give them an idea and tell them a little bit about what you’ve been working on?

Liam Doyle (27:29):

So, GRTDataHub came about when I was making the weekly bar charts for The Graph News, for The Graphtronauts. I then wanted to sort of create a tour where my brother and the community could go off to the app, and export the charts whenever they wanted for their use, within either videos or within their community chat if needed. From there, I sort of made two sets of graphs. There’s one for the homepage and then there is the other one, which is now the export page. Since then, it’s become more mobile friendly with line graphs and more data used within most of the communities by content creators. It’s even featured in the quarterly reports. It works by querying subgraphs to collect the data and then display them within bar chart and line graphs. It does this every time a user visits, so refreshes the page within the app.

(28:17):

I want to keep them live, even though it does cause the app to slow down sometimes, and I believe this is worth it. I’ve always wanted to make the data easily accessible and easy to interpret. So even if I hid the numbers from the user, they could still see the growth, they could still see the positive trends of active Delegators, subgraphs, query fees increasing. If so, then the charts have done exactly what I’ve designed them to do. They have a dynamic axis, meaning that they can take the number from within the bar chart, and it will change the equations depending on the data to ensure the bars don’t come off the bottom or the top of the graphs.

Nick (28:51):

As you said there, Liam, a lot of the community is using GRTDataHub to inform the ecosystem about some of the incredible metrics and data in the growth and adoption of The Graph. Since you’ve launched this app, however, it has, like I said, permeated throughout the community. What has that experience been like for you? I mean, you started creating graphs for Graphtronauts News, and now you’ve evolved to a standalone app with a lot of recognition within the community. That must have been quite a ride.

Liam Doyle (29:27):

Yeah, so my experience had been a developer with a real world app within The Graph ecosystem, something that never really thought I would’ve been able to talk about. I mean, I’m still a self-confessed novice coder, because this is a hobby. That hasn’t really changed for me, other than I’m extremely fortunate to have had at the backend, receive grants for the work that carried out. The tools that are built along the way, first of all from The Graph Foundation and The Graph Advocate on multiple occasions supported me through this. A few weeks ago, I released three new chat bots for public use, which means now that chat bots are available to any communities around the world that speak English, German, French, Turkish, Spanish, Ukrainian, Hindi and Urdu. I’ve been approached to make Russian, Chinese and Arabic chat bots. However, for now I’m sort of taking a short break from these.

(30:18):

I’m taking a step back as I’m building a new feature, which I believe will greatly benefit communities and future Advocates, hopefully. I’ve spoken to and got the opinion of some well respected, trustworthy Advocates within the ecosystem, and they told me to prioritize this new feature over the three new potential chat bots. They can sort of see its potential. Unless you’re a community member or an Advocate that I’ve worked with, you may not know this, but the GRTDataHub has its own little mini ecosystem, with over 35 of the top community admins and members from around the world. These are the people that I have collaborated with on occasion.

(30:55):

For example, chat bot content or weekly newsletter authors, or people who get to start their own communities and need a little bit of guidance how to do so, or set up their welcome messaging within Telegram, just to ensure they don’t get spam or scammers joining their groups. So it’s sort of become a facilitator ecosystem, and I know if I need anything, any topic, any issue, any guidance or an opinion, an honest opinion, I can drop a message and have the eyes, ears and the great minds of some of these amazing personalities, and community elite within The Graph ecosystem. I mean, you can see which communities are within the GRTDataHub ecosystem on the homepage. If you visit the about page, you can get direct links to their chats.

Nick (31:37):

Liam, as you mentioned, GRTDataHub uses The Graph to extract data and also provide dashboards for the community. And I’m curious, you’ve clearly been using subgraphs, you mentioned that [inaudible 00:31:52] over at Graphtronauts helped you out early on. Has using The Graph to build an app like this developed your conviction for the utility of something like The Graph in web3?

Liam Doyle (32:04):

Oh, definitely. I mean, when I first started to learn to code, even I had the thought of a complete novice, “Surely there’s an easier way to get data.” Surely, you don’t have to store all in one place having to call all of the data when you require a tiny little snippet. So for me, there was definitely a light bulb moment of, “This is the future, this is how things can be done,” and The Graph seemed to have an amazing way of pushing the boundaries and widening the goalpost of how further and further they can push it.

Nick (32:35):

Liam, one of the things about GRTDataHub that’s surprised me as I’ve watched its growth and adoption is like you said, the ecosystem that kind of came around to support it. And the first hints of this were Advocates jumping in and translating, and making this data available in their own communities, where they’re non-English speaking communities but are able to use these dashboards and this data. I want to know what you learned about The Graph community as a result of launching and starting this own vibrant community of your own. I mean, what have you learned about the Advocates, or the members of The Graph community located all over the world?

Liam Doyle (33:17):

I’ve learned a hell of a lot about The Graph community from all around the world. They’ve got a lot of certain attributes in common. All these attributes are positive. They’re passionate, friendly, loyal, always willing to help one another. If I was to sort of sum up The Graph community with a sort of simple quote, which is one of my favorite ones, it’s that, “A society grows great when people plant trees in whose shades they shall never sit in.” I mean, I probably just butchered that, but for me, that quote cements what The Graph community is all about. I found myself helping others a lot more recently, and it’s definitely due to the amount of help that I’ve had along the way, which just sort of led me to the success that I’ve had. The Graph community and everyone working on The Graph are definitely the people within that quote. I believe truly, we do have the best community within web3.

Nick (34:05):

Along the same lines, Liam, you said that oftentimes members of the community will reach out to you for advice because maybe they have an idea, and maybe it extends beyond just implementing your work into their community. Maybe it’s a fresh idea they have on their own. Maybe it’s the next GRTDataHub type contribution within the community. What is your advice for people that have an idea, or want to start something like you did, and have the type of success that you’re having?

Liam Doyle (34:32):

Well, I had this conversation a few times with people who have joined the GRTDataHub mini ecosystem, as they call it. They’ve had these questions of, “I want to get involved. However, I’ve got no coding experience. I’m not a good public speaker. I can’t create content,” etc., etc. And I mean, there’s a role for everyone within The Graph ecosystem and the Advocates have pushed that with their roles. They have guidance, they have training, and if you’d speak to any of those sort of roles within the ecosystem, they all have tools which aid them to do that. So all I’d say was, always reach out, always ask questions. People aren’t ever going to shoot you down for asking a stupid question. Even if you do ask a stupid question, there’s probably 10 other people who also got the same questions asked. There’s no such thing as stupid question. It’s just stupid answers.

Nick (35:20):

Well, I want to ask you this question about what’s next for GRTDataHub, and you sort of teased it a moment ago, but what can you tell us about what you’re working on and what’s next for GRTDataHub?

Liam Doyle (35:33):

Yeah, so as you know, I’m taking a step back from building new chat bots for a short period. I’ll probably continue these in the future, if the community still wants them at the time. I’m still continuously improving the current ones, so I want make these the best I possibly can for the influx of GRT holders. But yeah, I am building a new feature. As I’ve touched on this already, I’ll sort of repeat it to you now. I’ll try and give you a good explanation of it. So for me, it’s been an issue in the past where Advocates have conducted interviews, putting Advocates who are simply not ready or they don’t know enough about the Advocate roles that they desire. On the flip side of that, I’ve pushed and guided many community members towards advocacy after doubting myself for a long time. I ask a question that I ask myself, which is, am I Advocate ready?

(36:21):

Are they Advocate ready? I mean until now, or until the features may be pushed out, the only way to tell is by doing your own research, then apply for the interview and seeing if you’ve got what it takes. And this is where the new feature idea came from. So, it’s going to be a revision/quiz/educational aid for those community members who maybe sat on the fence. For those people who are not quite sure if they have what it takes to become an Advocate, but they want to learn. For those who know they have what it takes, but want to give yourself a confidence boost before applying, for those who have sort of asked yourself, “Well, am my Advocate ready? And what does it take?” So hoping to create a sort of four part feature. So, there’ll be a guided revision section where the user can find all documentation guides, etc. at the tip of their fingers.

(37:08):

What Advocate roles entail, the code of conducts, time you should put into the roles and contributions, what sort of events you could hold, any grant opportunities or swag bundles. There will be a revision section, where the user will be able to test themselves with flip cards or flashcards, as people call them, where there’ll be a question on the front, an answer on the back, and the question will be taken straight out of the documentation, which they’ll have the access to learn. There will then be quizzes with multiple choice, those who prefer to learn by taking a mock test, where they can see the answers within the group of answers to trigger their memory. As that’s how other people like to learn, the user will go to specify a topic they want to concentrate on along with easy, medium and hard difficulties. Because if you have a technical teacher who is 10-year developer compared to a content creator who only started a month ago, all these different people are going to find easy, medium and hard, difficulties completely different.

(38:09):

So, everyone’s going to be on different levels. And then you’ll have one final test where the user will be questioned on everything at random, selected from all the topics, selected from easy, medium and hard questions. The final exam will be timed with a score that will be displayed at the end. There would be a certificate which would be downloadable, to prove to the Advocate members community that that have the minimum pass mark and the maximum time mark, so the user can’t sit for four hours taking 20 question tests and then get 100%, because it defeats the object of the test. And again, if your user has educational needs that need to be catered for, that’ll be taken into account. So, hope to evolve this feature in the future where the user will be able to get maybe some sort of NFTs for completing the quiz, and then having successfully enrolled as a Graph Advocate, these sort of stats will be good for the future. I believe making this feature will bring a higher caliber of Advocates join up to the scheme, and hopefully it’ll have community members helping other community members to also join up.

Nick (39:10):

Well, that’s clearly an exciting development at GRTDataHub. This idea, Liam, that you’re creating this educational platform within GRTDataHub is a way to empower or educate people who are interested in The Graph and web3. I mean, this is all premised on your belief, I assume that if someone gets the right knowledge or resources, there’s a place for them to get busy and start contributing.

Liam Doyle (39:39):

Yeah, that’s definitely the route I’m going down here. Even if people want to get involved and have no idea about web3, tools are there to learn about web3, learn about The Graph, the different roles that they can contribute within. I mean, you’re not alone. There’s different groups you can join. Ask the questions, get involved. I mean, attend events, meet people, join new groups.

Nick (40:04):

It’s an incredible initiative, Liam, and very exciting. Of course, I’ll place links in the show notes and other resources for any listener that wants to learn more. If a listener wants to learn more about GRTDataHub and follow some of the work that you’re working on, what’s the best way for them to check it out?

Liam Doyle (40:21):

I mean, you can simply Google GRTDataHub. It’ll come up at the top. If you’re interested in how the data is collected, then please visit the about page within the app, and there’s an explanation on how I do this. The app’s also open source, so you can visit the GitHub page if you wish, and if you want to read more about the features, you can read it within The Graph forum.

Nick (40:43):

Liam, as you may know, I’ve had other guests on the podcast before who have a similar story as you, and that is, they become interested in The Graph, they plug into the community, they start doing their own work, looking for ways to contribute and all suddenly they have grants, they’ve established some thought leadership, and they’re building community around their own contributions. I always like to ask this question about, what does that say about web3? What does that say about The Graph? Because I’m not sure that’s possible in other industries or other organizations, where if you pick up a side hustle or start just creating things, that all suddenly you’re welcomed in and given the opportunity. Maybe it’s this observation about meritocracy, but do you ever think about any of that?

Liam Doyle (41:29):

I believe I’m very, very fortunate to be in the position I am, where I’m been able to have grants, and I’ve made tools and educational content for The Graph communities. I’ve met so many great people on the way who’ve helped me along my web3 Journey. I can honestly say within The Graph ecosystem, I’ve worked closely with so many great Advocates and community members and I’ve made friends for life from all over the globe. So, I naturally want to give back for everyone that’s helped me. I want help someone new, and I’m hoping it’s a knock-on domino effect, so for they want create maybe their community to bring people in from their community. But yeah, I’d say if you have the ambition, if you have the drive, I’m going to echo this again, it’s not just for people who want to code, or people who have learned to code. There’s so many roles you can do. Have a look at the Advocate program, have a look at the roles, join the Discord. Any questions you have, just ask away.

Nick (42:30):

Lima, I want to ask you this question about the data you’ve seen about The Graph. So since you launched GRTDataHub, you’ve gone through lots of data, you’ve published a lot of cool dashboards. What trends have you seen that have caught your attention, or is there any specific data point that as you’ve been doing your work, has surprised you?

Liam Doyle (42:50):

Yeah, so having seen the data on The Graph on almost a daily basis, I think the trends that have caught my attention, but definitely the most noticeable were the amount of active indexes that have been rising, and the amount of subgraphs and query fees, and on occasion calls me to sort of amend my algorithms to ensure that the bar charts don’t break, which I always laugh about, because I never thought that the query fees would basically go parabolic overnight. But I’d probably say I love seeing the constant increase in indexes, careers, Delegators. I want to point out that Looker, they’ve also sort of collaborated, and I have their dashboards within my app, and they make some really interesting data points, which I like to look at for questions like, “What day of the week do most people delegate?”

(43:41):

And little charts like that, that get me interested in initially looking into the data, and it sort of takes you down more of a route where it’s not just direct, “Here’s the data, read it.” It’s, “Oh, this is interesting. Maybe you could look into this a little bit more,” and you find yourself on a different dashboard and then a different dashboard. And before you know it, half an hour later, you’ve delved into all these index queries. And I’d say the data that gets me most excited, probably the constant increase across the board.

Nick (44:39):

What makes you most optimistic about the future of The Graph?

Liam Doyle (44:44):

For me, it has to be the sunsetting of the hosted service. There are many, more and more chains that have been integrated every month. This always sparks new excitement and talks within any community, any Discord, any Telegram. When phase three comes around, I believe everyone will realize that it’s sort of really happening, and it’ll probably be the talking point of web3. The subgraphs seem to keep getting improved with easier to retrieve data, with less calls, hiring things from dapps to DAOs. I mean, I believe we’re still in the early days of The Graph journey. Bottom line is, the end goal within web3 is to build a better Internet for everyone, where anyone could contribute in a decentralized manner. So for me, The Graph community, which is the best within web3 in terms of promoting each other and helping each other along the way. So yeah, definitely say the sunset of the hosted service.

Nick (45:33):

You’ve hinted towards this a couple times in your answers, but I do want to ask you, and again, it’s a fairly common question on the podcast, but when you think about the future of web3, how are you thinking about it in terms of, does web3 eat web2, and eventually web2 goes away? Or do these things coexist in the future?

Liam Doyle (45:53):

Yeah, that’s a really good question. For me, I think they have to coexist. This may not be everyone’s idea, but I don’t believe at this point in time, fully decentralization is the place to go. It’s a lot more governance, a lot more, not rules, but a lot more guidance as to how people should be doing things. Them coexisting, I think will probably work best.

Nick (46:18):

Well, Liam, I only have a few more questions for you and then I want to ask you the GRTiQ 10. The first one I want to ask is about your personal intention. Do you intend at some point to go full-time into web3? I mean, as I heard you describe your career and what you do, I got a sense that you’re really on a very solid career track, and have put a lot of investment and time into that, and yet here you are. You’ve launched this very cool community tool, it’s become its own ecosystem within the ecosystem. What are your plans?

Liam Doyle (46:50):

I mean, yeah, I’d love to go full-time, but I don’t feel like I’m ready for that yet. Many people tend to lie to themself when it comes to a job promotion that comes up, or they take it and then they’re not ready. They struggle, they stress, they end up hating work, and it affects their home life, etc. I don’t want that. I enjoy my day job, even though the hours can long and it’s shift work. But as a supervisor now, and I sort of want to carry on that path for a few more years. However, I do have opportunities to develop a friend of mine who have said that I do have what it takes currently to work within their team, or on their current projects, but I think I need to build self-confidence, which has come a long way, thanks for the support from the communities and the grants especially. I believe I’m ready to take that step in the future, but I just want to be true to myself, and be ready to tackle it head-on when I do take that leap.

Nick (47:40):

And the final question I want to ask you is about your career as an aircraft engineer. How has all those skills that you so well talked about earlier in the interview, how have those skills improved or informed the way you approach your work on GRTDataHub?

Liam Doyle (48:01):

Yeah, so I’ve asked myself this question a few times. I mean, in the early days I would’ve said it’s a completely different world. I mean, I work on mechanical systems. This is the completely opposite. The more that I learn, the more I’ve realized that I do have some transferable skills. When you first start, there’s the full diagnosis, which is a massive part of my day job. It’s just the same when creating an app or a new feature, if something’s wrong for the user and you can’t find it, it can become very frustrating, but having the patience and the mindset of knowing that it will come good, that you do have the skills to fix it, sometimes it helps just take a step back as we can often get tunnel vision at times of stress or time constraints. I mean, that’s definitely a skill that I’ve used.

Nick (48:43):

Liam, now we’ve reached a point in the podcast where I’m going to ask you the GRTiQ 10, and these are 10 questions I ask every week, and I hope that it gives listeners a chance to learn something new or try something different or to achieve more in their own life. So are you ready for the GRTiQ 10?

Liam Doyle (48:59):

Yep, let’s go for it.

Nick (49:10):

What book or articles had the most impact on your life?

Liam Doyle (49:14):

Well, just not having much spare time to read, I sort of favor listening to podcasts on a daily commute to and from work. Well, one podcast that has greatly changed the way that I think and how I live my life. It’s got to be The Diary of a CEO with Steven Bartlett. I encourage people to go listen to this. Even if you have no interest in changing the way you live, that’s fine. I mean, there’s topics there for everyone, from eating your vegetables first with any meal, as to why related glucose spikes, etc., which I had no clue about, to sleep. I mean, I’m very guilty of only getting between five, six, seven hours per night. Even after listening to this podcast about early death or Alzheimer’s, I still struggle to kick the habits, but I have a lot more awareness and understanding about these, and I do try and change the way that I have my daily routines and my habits. But yeah, go check out the Diary of a CEO, and it’s definitely changed my mindset for almost everything.

Nick (50:08):

Is there a movie or a TV show that you would recommend everyone should watch?

Liam Doyle (50:11):

I don’t tend to watch much TV, unless they’re documentaries. However, when I do, I like to watch such programs that sort of take you away from reality and bring it down to earth, ancient civilizations or about lost time, or worlds wonders, unsolved mysteries. I tend to go from one extreme to the other, but I can get lost in these documentaries for hours on end, and having finished the show with probably less knowledge than when I started. But yeah, I do find all fascinating.

Nick (50:38):

If you could only listen to one music album for the rest of your life, which one would you choose?

Liam Doyle (50:42):

My taste in music’s changed over the years. I would say it would’ve been Eminem a couple of years ago. Used to get me motivated at the time. However, since having a child and I tend to seek more relaxing music, so I’ll probably go for Lewis Capaldi. I love that guy, everything he’s doing. If you haven’t seen his documentary, I’d recommend that because he’s an absolute driving force. He’s a really great guy.

Nick (51:06):

What’s the best advice someone’s ever given to you?

Liam Doyle (51:09):

Best advice has to be, “Under promise and over-deliver.” And this can often be misinterpreted for being lazy, or trying to falsely give someone an impression of a task that takes two hours, but you’re taking one hour 30 to impress them. That isn’t what I’m trying to say here. When I say under promise and over-deliver, I mean go above and beyond. If you work the same way when your boss is watching as to when nobody is watching, you can’t do any more. Within any walks of life, people put on an act where when they’re with certain people, and again, be true to yourself, set your own standards and start building your own self-respect. If others see the way you change working within a team and certain individuals around, I mean, that’s a fast track solution they respect. So yeah, I’d just say set your own standards, stick to them regardless of who is or isn’t watching in life. That’s probably the best advice I can pass on.

Nick (52:01):

What’s the one thing you’ve learned in your life that you don’t think most other people have learned or know yet?

Liam Doyle (52:07):

I would say if you feel sad, frustrated, down in the dumps or generally fed up, there’s three things you can do, which would turn that around in a matter of hours. I’m not saying there’s a miracle fix or it’s like never been heard of. But first of all, exercise and eat healthily. Secondly, try to listen to some sort of upbeat music. Third and finally, listen to your favorite standup comedian, all of which release the right chemicals, feedback [inaudible 00:52:33], be happy, relaxed, and have a productive mindset.

Nick (52:37):

What’s the best life hack you’ve discovered for yourself?

Liam Doyle (52:39):

For me, if I can’t solve a problem or I’m sort of pondering on an issue, which is stressing me out, maybe an assignment, sleep. A good night’s sleep. I find that when I sleep, my brain figures a lot of things up for me, and I’m not sure if any works for me, but when I start coding, I discovered this. I’m not sure if others have tried it. Other people have said their brains just sort of don’t work that way. I mean, give it a try. See if yours does.

Nick (53:07):

Based on your own life experiences and observations, what’s the one habit or characteristic that you think best explains how or why people find success in life?

Liam Doyle (53:17):

Yeah, I guess it depends what we define as success. So, is success having a job that pays six figures, but you sacrifice your family time, hobbies, weekends, etc.? Or is it the opposite, where we work to pay the bills and we can spend more time with our family, building relationships and life experiences? I mean, honestly, I believe that everyone sees success in a different way due to the way that we’re all wired. So, one thing for certain is never let anyone else’s success define your life path. You will not feel the same way as they do. Some of the wealthiest people on the planet are the most depressed with the jobs, which have no sense of satisfaction. A lot of CEOs feel this way. I mean, that got deep. But I say success is what you leave behind, not what you bring to the table.

Nick (54:01):

And the final three questions are, complete the sentence type questions. The first one is, Liam. The thing that most excites me about web3 is?

Liam Doyle (54:09):

I’m going to have to say open source community contributions.

Nick (54:15):

And how about this one? If you’re on Twitter, then you should be following?

Liam Doyle (54:19):

@GRTCrypto, which is a shameless plug, but I’m also going to say GRTiQ Podcast, due to the great news that you guys share, and it’s always super early and accurate.

Nick (54:29):

Thank you so much for that, Liam. I appreciate it. And the last question is, I’m happiest when?

Liam Doyle (54:35):

I have finally sat down after a 14-hour shift, stick on a podcast or a documentary. I open my laptop and escape into the world of GRTDataHub and coding, and I look down at the clock and what feels like an hour later, somehow turned to three hours. And I found myself hungry, thirsty, but it’s definitely an escape for me, which I never knew I would find when I first started coding

Nick (55:09):

Liam, thank you so much for your time, and very generous of you to not only talk about your journey into web3 and The Graph community, your full-time work, but also the origin story and all the incredible contributions you’ve been making with GRTDataHub. If listeners want to learn more about you and stay up to date on all the things you’re working on, what’s the best way for them to stay in touch?

Liam Doyle (55:33):

Yeah, so the obvious answer is to go to GRTDataHub. If you scroll right to the bottom of the app within there, there’s all my contact details, you’ll find how to find me on Telegram, my Twitter handle, and my email address. Feel free to reach out if you have anything from, how do I delegate to how to create subgraphs.